ilPistone.com

Citazione di: baranzo il Aprile 14, 2011, 10:06:25
^^^^
In pratica è come il rapporto affidabilità di Quattroruote, basato sulle risposte degli iscritti.

Ancora piu' complicato poichè usano anche un programma statistico per prevedere come si comporteranno i modelli nuovi

Citazione di: baranzo il Aprile 13, 2011, 21:03:59
Molto spesso le case hanno un accordo con ADAC o altre organizzazioni simili di modo che anche se c'è un contratto poi sono i veicoli del soccorso stradale tradizionale ad intervenire.

Per quanto riguarda i dati, ho provato a cercare sul sito ma i dati so no riservati agli iscritti; da quello che sono riuscito a capire si basano su questionari nei quali si chiede il grado di soddisfazione, e magari risulta meno soddisfatto l'acquirente Merceder che si incazza per una lampadina bruciata di ci ha una Hyundai e giudica meno gravi certi difetti su un'auto pagata così poco.

l'ADAC quando ha un contratto con un ditta automobilistica  per effettuare l'assistenza, non fa rientrare nelle proprie statistiche gli interventi. (se vuoi ti posso mandare un articolo dell'ADAC in cui veniva spiegato).

Il consumer report non funziona come grado di soddisfazione:

Consumer Reports' Auto Reliability Survey Details:

Findings are based on responses on 1.3 million vehicles owned or leased by subscribers to Consumer Reports or its Web site, www.ConsumerReports.org. The survey was conducted in the spring of 2010 by Consumer Reports' National Survey Research Center and covered model years 2001 to 2010.

Consumer Reports' expert team of statisticians and automotive engineers used the survey data to predict reliability of new 2011 models. Predicted reliability is Consumer Reports' forecast of how well models currently on sale are likely to hold up. To calculate predicted-reliability ratings, CR averages the overall reliability scores (used car verdicts) for the most recent three model years, provided that the model remained unchanged in that period and also didn't substantially change for 2011. If a model was new or redesigned in the past couple of years, one or two years' data may be used, or if that's all that's available. On rare occasions Consumer Reports make predictions for a newly redesigned model, but only if previous versions had outstanding reliability.

Consumer Reports Annual Auto Survey Reliability Ratings are unrelated to Consumer Reports vehicle road-test results, but are a key factor in determining whether or not Consumer Reports recommends a car. CR only recommends models that have performed well in tests conducted at its 327-acre Auto Test Center in Connecticut, and that have average or better predicted reliability based on its annual survey. In addition, vehicles must perform at least adequately in government or Insurance-industry crash and rollover tests, if tested, and have electronic stability control (ESC) readily available in a mainstream high-volume trim line in order to be Recommended by Consumer Reports.

Citazione di: baranzo il Aprile 13, 2011, 17:36:49
Questo vale per le auto nuove, ma i risultati si riequilibrano una volta che le auto hanno qualche anno in più.

In compenso non ho ancora ricevuto alcuna indicazione sui parametri che vengono usati per stilare questa classifica di affidabilità.

1. In effetti vale per i primi 2-3 anni di vita e poi le case ti offrono ad un prezzo ragionevole dei prolungamenti fino a 5 anni. Conclusione: queste statistiche fra qualche anno saranno solo valide per auto di piu' di 5 anni.

2. vai sul sito del consumer report e cerca. Non penso che organizzazioni dei consumatori americani rischiano processi miliardari per dare statistiche fasulle.

Citazione di: baranzo il Aprile 13, 2011, 16:43:41
Perfetto!

Traduzione a parte, quello che viene detto è che:

-le tedesche sono le migliori per quanto riguarda interni, qualità percepita e caratteristiche di guida
-le tedesche crollano miseramente in quanto ad affidabilità

La mia domanda è: in base a cosa viene definita l'affidabilità? Se ci affidiamo ai risultati dei servizi di assistenza tipo TCS e ADAC le tedesche non ne escono così male
http://www.tcs.ch/main/it/home/auto_moto/unterhalt/pannenstatistik_2009.html
mentre ad esempio Toyota ne esce piuttosto ridimensionata; per questo motivo, prima di prendere per oro colato queste affermazioni, vorrei sapere su cosa sono basate.

Non hanno scritto le tedesche!
Hanno scritto le europee poichè c'è anche di mezzo la Volvo.
C'è anche scritto che la nuova Jetta ha degli interni ad un livello molto basso.

Per quanto concerne i risultati ADAC e sicuramente TCS sono da scartare come l'ho già spiegato altre volte in questo forum:

In Germania se tu possiedi una BMW, MB, VW, AUDI e persino una Fiat (hano imparato anche loro la lezione) e ti si blocca la macchina non chiami l'ADAC ma una organizzazione (tipo europ assistance) che si occupa di recuperare la tua auto e di portarla dal concessionario.

A te la conclusione

Citazione di: bmwsport il Aprile 13, 2011, 10:56:13
Non penso, sono gli americani che si fanno influenzare.

Basta vedere il casino che hanno fatto per buttare m...a sulla toyota per rallentarne le vendite

si ma intanto la considerano tra le piu' affidabili!

Citazione di: baranzo il Aprile 13, 2011, 11:48:09
Avrei capito meglio se fosse stato scritto in Russo (con caratteri cirillici).

va meglio cosi'?

если передние сиденья комфорта, подгонки и отделки, и динамику вождения было все, что считал, европейских автомобилей будет править бал. Как это, нерегулярности надежность собак некоторых европейских брендов. Бренд надежность Volkswagen улучшилось в последнее время, но пятнистый надежности Audi приносит оценка комбинированных автопроизводителя вниз. Если новый седан Jetta, с его низкой степени интерьера и посредственные экономию топлива, является показателем того, где Volkswagen возглавляет, это происходит в неправильном направлении. Mercedes-Benz и BMW, с ниже среднего надежность, в нижней части нашего рейтинга. Их внедорожников, в частности, были проблемы с надежностью, по данным нашего опроса, несмотря на хорошие исполнители. И хотя BMW 1 серии отлично оценка дорожно-тест, он ковылял по страшной надежности.

Citazione di: bmwsport il Aprile 13, 2011, 11:15:22

Cmq l'Alfa Romeo in germania ed inghilterra è ancora vista come un buon marchio !

Peccato che non ne vendano!

Sai quante macchine italiane trovi nelle  prime 50?

Citazione di: bmwsport il Aprile 13, 2011, 09:44:02
Gli americano sono strani !

E se fossero gli europei ad essere strani nel farsi troppo influenzare dal marketing?

Citazione di: bmwsport il Aprile 12, 2011, 18:31:07
Scusate ma io non sono imparato con l'inglese........conclusioni ?

se traduci con google riesci a capire:

se la comodità dei sedili anteriori, in forma e finitura, e la dinamica di guida sono stati tutti che contava, auto europeo sarebbe spadroneggiare. Come è, affidabilità subpar segugi alcune marche europee. L'affidabilità del marchio Volkswagen è migliorata negli ultimi tempi, ma l'affidabilità spotty Audi porta il punteggio del automobilistica combinata verso il basso. Se la nuova berlina Jetta, con i suoi interni di bassa qualità ed economia di combustibile mediocre, è un'indicazione di dove Volkswagen è diretta, sta andando nella direzione sbagliata. Mercedes-Benz e BMW, con affidabilità inferiore alla media, sono vicino al fondo della nostra classifica. La loro SUV, soprattutto, ha avuto problemi di affidabilità, secondo la nostra indagine, pur essendo buone prestazioni. E anche se la BMW Serie 1 ha un eccellente punteggio strada-test, è l'affidabilità bloccati però da terribili.

Citazione di: renzo il Aprile 12, 2011, 18:36:37
le gialle son le migliori...

le mb, le bmw, le audi stan sotto la media.. un pochino meglio le vw, ma sempre mediocri...

la solita solfa insomma...

Non dice la solita solfa.
L'articolo dice che sono peggiorate e di gran lunga sotto la media ed in partivolare le SUV sono al livello piu' basso.

Interessante punto di vista degli americani secondo l'associazione dei consumatori americana:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/who-makes-the-best-cars/overview/index.htm

Who makes the best cars?


Honda and Subaru still make the best vehicles overall, but Ford posted the largest gain in the past year, improving in its road-test and reliability scores. General Motors and Volvo also improved in both areas. On the other hand, Mercedes-Benz is the only manufacturer whose scores dropped in both measures.

Our automaker report cards reflect the performance, comfort, utility, and reliability of more than 270 vehicles that we've recently tested. Here are other highlights from this year's analysis:

    * Honda, Subaru, and Toyota are the top three automakers for the third year in a row. Most of their vehicles do well in our tests and are relatively trouble-free.
    * Newer GM models have performed well in our tests, but the company still fields a few lackluster cars that drag down its overall score. Reliability has improved, but it's still not stellar.
    * Chrysler came in last, with the lowest average test score by far. But the company, now run by Italian automaker Fiat, is currently overhauling its lineup. Newer models, such as the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Dodge Ram, have done better in our tests than older models, and we're encouraged by our early looks at upcoming redesigns. Chrysler's reliability needs to improve for the automaker to be competitive.
    * European cars perform well in our tests, but many have confusing controls and inconsistent reliability. Volvo is the only European make with an above-average reliability score.

Each automaker's overall score is based on a composite of road-test and predicted-reliability scores for all of its models that we've tested. The road tests comprise more than 50 tests we perform, covering performance, safety, fuel economy, comfort, and convenience. Reliability scores come from our Annual Auto Survey. We also show the percentage of each carmaker's tested vehicles that we recommend. We revised our methodology this year, now giving equal weight to reliability and test scores. Previously, test scores carried more weight. So the overall scores are not directly comparable with last year's. We also had insufficient data on one brand we included last year, Mitsubishi.
Asian makes lead the pack

Honda, including its Acura division, has had the best reliability record of any manufacturer and has made mostly good to outstanding vehicles. The subcompact Fit, midsized Accord, and Acura MDX SUV have been at or near the top of their categories for years. In fact, no Honda product scores less than average in reliability. But some new Hondas have been unimpressive, including the CR-Z and Insight hybrids, which didn't score well enough in our tests to be recommended. The redesigned Odyssey, still our top-ranked minivan, dropped a few points in our testing.

Subaru, which has the highest average road-test score, makes only about a half-dozen models, but almost all do well in our road tests and have been reliability stalwarts. The Forester is a top-rated small SUV, and the Legacy, a good-performing sedan, has improved with each generation. Only one model, the sporty Impreza WRX, has below-average reliability.

Toyota, Lexus, and Scion models remain solid choices overall, but some newer Toyotas have slipped in interior fit and finish, with the Sienna minivan and Venza wagon being two recent examples. Two Toyotas, the subcompact Yaris and the FJ Cruiser SUV, have shown superb reliability but scored too low in our road tests for us to recommend them.

Hyundai's overall road-test score is a bit higher than last year's and could further improve with the impressive new models we are now testing.
Ford rules Detroit

Ford has outpaced its crosstown rivals in reliability in recent years. In our road tests, we have been impressed by current Fords such as the Fusion, Flex SUV, and Mustang. Even the new small Fiesta drives nicely. But the Ford Escape and Edge SUVs are nothing special, the large Ford Taurus has limited visibility, and the touch-sensitive controls in some new Fords and Lincolns are difficult to use.

Newer GM vehicles such as the Buick Enclave and LaCrosse, and the Chevrolet Equinox and Traverse, have done well in our road tests and have average reliability. The new Chevrolet Cruze performed well in our tests, but reliability remains to be seen. The below-average reliability of some Cadillac and GMC models hurts the automaker's overall score, as did subpar older models such as the Chevrolet Impala sedan, Colorado pickup, and the outgoing Aveo subcompact.
Europe is mixed

If front-seat comfort, fit and finish, and driving dynamics were all that counted, European cars would rule the roost. As it is, subpar reliability hounds some European brands. Volkswagen's brand reliability has improved of late, but Audi's spotty reliability brings the combined automaker's score down. If the new Jetta sedan, with its low-grade interior and mediocre fuel economy, is an indication of where Volkswagen is headed, it's going in the wrong direction. Mercedes-Benz and BMW, with below-average reliability, are near the bottom of our ranking. Their SUVs, especially, had reliability problems, according to our survey, despite being good performers. And although the BMW 1 Series has an excellent road-test score, it is hobbled by terrible reliability.

Marchionne dixit:

Fiat CEO's comments on Chrysler and industry crisis
April 21, 2010 14:16 CET

TURIN (Reuters) -- Fiat S.p.A.and Chrysler Group CEO Sergio Marchionne has become something of a guru in the auto industry since predicting over a year ago only five or six carmakers would survive the crisis.
On Wednesday, he presented his vision for the next five years for Fiat, filling in the gaps left by a similar marathon presentation for Chrysler last November.
Here are some of Marchionne's comments in a speech to analysts entitled "Creative reconstruction after the perfect storm" at a presentation in Fiat's headquarters in Turin:

On Fiat's new chairman, John Elkann:

"He and I ... have navigated the last six years together through some pretty shark-infested waters."

"Notwithstanding his young age (34), he has now reached the right level of seasoning and maturity to assume the role."

On Chrysler, in which Fiat has a 20 percent stake:

"Much has been written in the last few months about Chrysler and its prospects for the future ... The financial analyst community has been particularly active in anticipation of today's event. And to be honest, some of the reports I have read, from what I used to consider intelligent and reasonable people, have taken on the tinge of boulevard press writings."

"The most benign interpretation is that they abused Albert Einstein's maxim that 'imagination is more important than knowledge'."

"This disclosure process (on Chrysler accounts) is being instituted in the spirit of increasing the transparency around the company's financial position that has been a point of contention with stakeholders in the last few years."

On Fiat´s top management:

"A team of leaders for whom courage has become a way of life. The team leading Fiat is a team of determined individuals who have embraced global competition as a challenge ... and who, like a hurdle runner, see obstacles as an opportunity to demonstrate their worth."

On the crisis that hit the car industry in late 2008:

"The shock wave it created hit the world so hard that only a war could have been more devastating."

"Our meltdown scenario ... a simulation which seemed completely unrealistic at the time, was later proved to have been too conservative."

"I am not quoting ... numbers to offer excuses, but rather as a reminder of how steep the crevasse that had opened up on the road ahead of us was."

"For a company, crisis can also bring out the best, like a period of reconstruction after a war."

Citazione di: Mauring il Marzo 02, 2010, 19:01:29
In effetti, la media delle emissioni dei vari modelli e' poco indicativa, perche' magari una marca che fa solo quadricicli che emettono in media come la gamma Fiat non e' certo da lodare....

Pero' e' anche vero che i crucchi ci stanno prendendo per il culo alla grande, con i loro transatlantici targati "Blue Efficiency".... 

Pero' se noti, le prime 8 hanno tutte una gamma di modelli molto simile

Citazione di: MRC il Marzo 02, 2010, 17:53:59
con cosa? una Panamera?

A me la 911 non è mai piaciuta.
Una 911 allungata ed allargata ancora meno 

Citazione di: fabrizio.b il Marzo 02, 2010, 17:32:04
ciao hans , quanto tempo . come sta la maseratona ?

Va sempre bene.
La volevo cambiare, sto aspettando una offerta del concessionario.